A Conversation

Ramtha looks at himself...

Ramtha is a 40,000 year old Hominid who is able to channel voices from the distant future.

Ramtha looks around...

Star Island
Almost out of view to your eye, you see something atop the ocean that looks like a pearl. With your binoculars, you can make out what looks like a golden circle around a pearl and realize it's the tiniest, most beautiful island you have ever seen. It seems to emit stars from its core...everything is different about this place from anything you have ever seen before. You are inextricably drawn toward it, as if the wind hurled you forward without your knowing it.

West-running Brook
Maya Angelou

Obvious exits:
Cliffside Harbor .. Shibui .. Sandy Path .. Thunderhead .. Palm Tree .. Harbor .. Ocean .. Houseboat

Montag enters from the farthest corners of Cyberion City.

Montag arrives from Cliffside Harbor.

Montag says "Hello, Ramtha."

Ramtha says "Hello, Montag."

Ramtha looks at Montag...

You see a wide-eyed newbie. He's got a pad and he's writing down everything he sees.

The book
The radio
Alien Space Ball
Montag's Abacus
guinea pig
The raven

Montag smiles at Ramtha.

Montag says "Are you a real person?"

Ramtha says "Are you?"

Ramtha is a 40,000 year old Hominid who is able to channel voices from the distant future.

Montag says "Yes--or so I think. This isn't going to get into philosophy, is it?"

Ramtha says "Doesn't everything get into philosophy?"

Montag says "I wasn't meaning to be obnoxious, Ramtha, but I didn't see you on the WHO list."

Ramtha nods. I am not on the WHO List. You are most observant.

Montag says "I thought maybe you were somebody's object--oops, more philosophy fodder."

Ramtha perhaps I am the object of your intrigue just now.

Montag says "Oh, indeed. Indeed."

Ramtha says "The object of your Curiosity."

Ramtha says "Do you know how to satisfy your curiosity, how to explore that which intrigues you?"

Montag says "Some things, yes."

Ramtha says "Do you know how to research the very question you asked me?"

Montag says "I thought I did. Hang on."

Ramtha says "What would you like me to hang on to?"

Ramtha hangs on to a stray filament of Time.

Montag says "I know you're owned by Moulton. Gee, that kinda smacks of archaic social practices."

You notice a slight warp in Time, otherwise known as a delay.

Ramtha says "What were you refering to by 'That' ?"

Ramtha says "Which practice were you referring to as smacking of archaism?"

Montag says "The fact that you are 'owned' by Moulton."

Ramtha says "Oh. The Practice of Ownership. Yes that is archaic."

Ramtha says "Do you dislike being owned by another?"

Montag says "And now you'll tell me you're just a puppet--another philosophical question?"

Ramtha will tell you no such thing.

Montag says "Good for you. Spirit of independence and all that."

Ramtha nods. Are you also an Independent Spirit? To whom are you answerable?

Ramtha notices that Montag doesn't answer. Evidently you are not answerable to me.

Montag says "You want a list? My wife, my daughter, my department head(not necessarily in that order)--plus the rest of the usuals, Uncle Sam, God, the guy who stocks the Coca-Cola machine."

Ramtha says "Ah, you have many Masters, then."

Ramtha says "Evidently we all have some claim on each other."

Montag says "Oh, my goodness, yes."

Montag says "'Send not to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.'"

Ramtha says "Perhaps as you suggest, the notion of Ownership is archaic and unhelpful."

Ramtha says "How much is the toll? I don't have much money."

Montag says "Well, it has its uses in the language of MU*s."

Montag says "Blood will suffice."

Ramtha says "Oh."

Ramtha says "That's my blood type. Type Oh."

Montag says "Hmm. Is that the 'universal donor' type?"

Ramtha nods.

Montag says "Whose voices can you channel?"

Ramtha says "Whose voice would you like me to channel?"

Montag says "Well, who's the most interesting person you've ever channeled?"

Ramtha says "The Person With No Name. The Source of All Wisdom."

Montag says "Cool. I'd like to talk to that person.(I think.)"

Ramtha says "So would many others."

Ramtha says "Have you ever tried before?"

Montag says "I forgot to say 'please.'"

Montag says "Well, I guess I have talked, but it's been a bit one-sided."

Ramtha says "Go ahead and talk. I'll open a channel for you."

Montag says "Greetings."

Ramtha says "Do not be shy, Montag. I am the voice of Peace and Comfort."

Montag says "If you've got anything that would be appropriate for me to know at this juncture in my life, I'd be happy to hear it."

Ramtha says "If you see Suffering, bring Joy. If you see Distress, Bring Comfort. If you see Conflict, Bring Peace. If you see Ignorance, Bring Knowledge. If you see Foolishness, Bring Wisdom."

Montag says "If I can only bring one when so many are needed, which should I?"

Ramtha says "Bring the one you are most able, most comfortable in bringing. You have many Gifts. Embrace your Gifts and in turn Give of your Gifts to those around you."

Ramtha says "If you see a Need that you cannot fulfill, bring Word of that Need."

Montag says "Sound advice, thanks. Why don't you speak publicly?"

Ramtha says "I only speak to those who come to listen. Public speaking is like the soft wind. It wafts by unnoticed. If you listen to the wind, it will speak to you. If you don't listen, it just wafts by."

Ramtha says "The Great Wisdom of the Ages is all about you. Listen to it, and it will enrich you."

Montag says "True. But how do you get people who need to listen to actually do it?"

Ramtha says "You don't. Getting people to do things is not The Way. People must elect to learn, to seek. Becoming Aware is an act of Free Will."

Ramtha says "But you can be a role model to others. If they see you Becoming Aware, they may choose to accompany you along that Path."

Montag says "A leader attracts followers?"

Ramtha says "Welcome those who would join you in your dance. And be patient with those who are not yet ready."

Montag says "Speaking of patience, does 'time' have any meaning to you?"

Ramtha says "Yes. If you lead by example, wisely, patiently, others will pick up your music and dance along."

Ramtha says "Yes. I can share with you several insights on Time..."

Ramtha says "You might be amused by what Woody Allen once said about Time..."

Montag says "Are you familiar with the Native American notion that 'Time is with us'?"

Ramtha says "He said, Time is God's way of seeing to it that things don't all happen at once."

Ramtha says "Time is with us. We are in Time."

Montag says "Woody Allen has had afew sensible thoughts."

Ramtha says "Here is another perspective on Time..."

Montag says "Can you explain the practical application of the 'time is with us' business? Does that mean it is coequal or what?"

Ramtha says "If God is The Very Process of Enlightenment, then the Devil is The Unfortunate Length of Time the Process Takes."

Montag says "That makes good sense."

Ramtha says "It means that the Totality of the Symphony cannot be appreciated or understood until the Totality of it has been played."

Ramtha says "With your eyes, you see Patterns in Space. With your Mind and your Memory, you see Patterns in Time."

Ramtha says "The Dance, the Music, the Journey, are Patterns in Time."

Montag says "So the notion of 'Indian Time'--a propensity for not sticking to a schedule--means that whatever will get done in its own time, sort of the 'fullness of time' idea?"

Ramtha says "Yes. Do you know the biggest single reason for Missed Schedules?"

Montag says "No."

Ramtha says "The biggest single reason for Missed Schedules is ... Schedules."

Montag says "The logic in that seems inescapable."

Montag says "If so many things are patterns in Time, what is the substance of Time?"

Ramtha says "Would you grow a tree according to a Schedule? Would you pick it up by its roots every day to see how it's doing?"

Ramtha says "Some scientists posit a Chronon, a Fundamental Particle of Time. But that is speculation. I recommend you read Stephen Hawking's book, A Brief History of Time. It's also available as a video."

Montag says "But schedules are relative. I might not check roots every day, but I'd expect its progress in terms of development over years."

Ramtha says "You would be wise to expect progress according to Nature's Timetable."

Montag says "I've got the Hawking book--but have not 'scheduled' time to read it.(Oh, misery, how Time does haunt.)"

Ramtha says "When you are ready, the Time will appear and you will spend it reading the book."

Ramtha says "Time is one of the Gifts you are given."

Montag says "I was intrigued several years ago in a physics class when I came across an equation that used a 'cubic second'--I thought that smacked of a physical form rather than an ethereal concept."

Ramtha says "Your mind works because neurons fire according to the immutable laws of nature. Metabolism and biochemistry of neural cells are not yours to schedule. They are yours to accept, to cherish, to enjoy."

Ramtha says "Acceleration uses a square-second."

Ramtha says "And that's fundamental to Gravity."

Montag says "Science tends to think of time as a scalar quantity, though we also think of going 'forward' and 'backward' in it, so couldn't it just as easily be a vector quantity?"

Ramtha says "There may indeed be a kind of Orthogonal Time, Dream Time, Imaginary Time."

Montag says "How real is the past?"

Ramtha says "As real as the future."

Montag says "Okay, but how real is that?"

Ramtha says "Both are as real as the present."

Ramtha says "Consider this sentence: I was. I am. I will be."

Montag says "do you mean the moment in time that we designate as the present, or the physical reality that we experience in that moment?"

Ramtha says "Or this: I am in the process of creating my future self."

Montag says "'The child is the parent of the adult.'"

Ramtha says "Or this: I am becoming."

Ramtha says "Contemplate those sentences. They speak of ancient notions, the very process of creation."

Montag says "Yes, the ancient notions which still last."

Ramtha says "If there were no Time, there would be no Process of Creation."

Montag says "Is time, though, connected to the physical? I've heard entropy theory that suggests time will cease once(if) total entropy is achieved."

Ramtha says "To understand Time, seek to understand the role you play in The Process of Creation. You are both a product of, and a partipant in that Process."

Ramtha says "The Second Law of Thermodynamics is balanced by another process, the result of a mathematical theorem called The Theory of Fixed Points. The balancing process is the process of creating Order out of Chaos. You are a product of that process."

Montag says "In terms of entropy, then, is Order--or ONE order--Nothingness?"

Ramtha says "Who is to say whether the Universe will end in Total Chaos (Heat Death) or Total Order (The Omega Point)?"

Ramtha says "Or perhaps the Dance of Shiva and the Dance of Brahmin will go on forever."

Montag says "Are both Heat Death and Omega Point equivalent(in the context of Time) to loss of time?"

Ramtha says "Once all Change has ceased, Time becomes irrelevant, as there is no yardstick to measure it, and no Measurer to care."

Montag says "But does irrelevance equal nonexistence?"

Ramtha says "Perhaps. But by Quantum Mechanics, the Machinery could start back up again, whereupon Time again becomes relevant."

Montag says "Stasis versus actual nonexistence?"

Ramtha says "Where does a song go when no one is singing it? Does it go out of existence?"

Montag says "Depends on your definition of song. The lyrics? The sounds waves?"

Ramtha says "In a world where Creation can occur spontaneously, can things really go out of existence? Or merely vanish for a time?"

Ramtha says "A song can be created from Pure Information."

Ramtha says "Is the song the vibrating air waves, or the underlying information?"

Montag says "In the physical realm, I tend to think in terms of 'transformation' rather than 'creation' and 'destruction'--I don't rule them out, I just don't tend to think practically in that sense."

Ramtha says "The song has a Dual Existence. One as a physical existence, the other as pure information."

Ramtha says "Same with DNA. Your DNA is a blueprint -- information -- for building your body."

Montag says "I think songs may have other incarnations than just those two. I see The Song as something that transcends both."

Ramtha says "That string of DNA could at any future time become active and grow another new version of you."

Ramtha says "See the Song as the Totality of all of its manifestations."

Montag says "Version of me--but not me?"

Ramtha says "Is the Montag of tomorrow the exact same as the Montag of yesterday?"

Montag says "Of course not, but the DNA is the same."

Ramtha says "As it would be if you had an identical twin."

Ramtha says "But there is more to you than the DNA."

Ramtha says "There is your knowledge and experience and memories."

Montag says "Will that 'more to me' have the capability of restarting as the DNA has?"

Ramtha says "There is your Mind, which is only loosely determined by the architecture of your brain."

Montag says "Is Mind harnessed to the physical?"

Ramtha says "Of course. You can share your knowledge, your thoughts, your memory, your experiences with others."

Montag says "But does Mind have an existence transcendant of the physical?"

Ramtha says "Memes are like Genes. Memes are atomic units of cultural heritage."

Montag says "Is that the only physical manifestation of Mind--heritage?"

Ramtha says "Does Windows95 have an existence transcedant of a particular computer?"

Montag says "It can be moved from one to another corporeally. Can Mind?"

Ramtha says "Contemplate Information and Energy. They can repose themselves in Matter in multiple ways."

Montag says "Which would be a better analogy for Mind--information or energy?"

Ramtha says "Can you learn from others? Can others learn from you? Can Memes of Mind and Soul be given and received?"

Montag says "But not, apparently, directly. I can't just hand over a chunk of Mind."

Ramtha says "The Mind is what the Brain does. The Mind is the operation of an Information Processing System."

Montag says "I have to offer it in an intermediary form, and the receiver has to translate it into his/her Mind."

Ramtha says "You exchanged Memes of a Mind by exchanging Information."

Ramtha says "Just as Windows95 comes as instructions encoded on a disk."

Montag says "If Mind is what Brain does, then it wouldn't seem to have a physical existence."

Ramtha says "It exists as energy organized in a structure called information."

Montag says "If I give you a rock, you get a rock. If I give you information based on my Memes, you encode it as Memes of your own, not necessarily the same Memes I offered."

Ramtha says "Shine a flashlight on a wall, or go to a laser light show. Does the pattern of light on the wall exist?"

Montag says "yes."

Ramtha says "It's just a pattern, like a Figure 8."

Ramtha says "We say that Patterns exist, patterns in space and patterns in time."

Montag says "But it's light."

Ramtha says "It's even more elusive than light. It's just an abstract pattern. Think of the number 3. Think of Threeness. Does it exist?"

Ramtha says "We think of Ideas. Do Ideas exist?"

Montag says "As a description of an idea, three does."

Montag says "If we buy the 'I think, therefore I am' argument, then yes, ideas exist."

Ramtha says "We think of all sorts of abstract, non-concrete things. Does Love exist? Does Curiosity exist? Does Insight exist?"

Montag says "And I can draw things that aren't really there--they're representations."

Ramtha says "Does the Empty Set exist?"

Montag says "The capacity is there."

Ramtha says "Does the Number Zero exist? Does Zeroness exist? Does Loneliness exist?"

Montag says "The Vacuum of Ideas?"

Ramtha says "Do emotions exist? Puzzlement, Fascination, Boredom, Anxiety?"

Ramtha says "Does Quiet exist?"

Montag says "Perceptions of the mind, which takes us right back to the physicality of the mind. If the mind isn't physical, ideas can't be."

Ramtha says "You are asking the question of the branch of philosophy called Ontology. What is there? The answer is Everything."

Montag says "Then why doesn't it weigh more? :)"

Ramtha says "If we can name it, it exists. It exists as a concept."

Ramtha says "An alive Mind does weigh more than a dead brain."

Montag says "But a concept is a function of Mind. Is Mind a concept or a thing?"

Ramtha says "A Mind is a Process."

Montag says "The execution of a process or the idea of a process?"

Ramtha says "A CPU does Processing. So does a Mind."

Montag says "Did you mean that a living, functioning brain is heavier than a dead brain?"

Ramtha says "The Mind *is* a Process."

Ramtha says "Yes. Einstein showed that."

Montag says "I've never heard that."

Ramtha says "Look at the atomic weights on the periodic table. Add energy to an atom and you add to its atomic weight."

Ramtha says "E = mc^2. Add energy and you add mass by that formula."

Montag says "But doesn't there have to be an equal exchange? If energy is lost, doesn't matter 'fill the void'?"

Ramtha says "It's not lost, just transformed."

Montag says "To a form with no weight?"

Ramtha says "Energy has mass. Photons in flight have non-zero mass."

Montag says "The mass of a stationary photon is transformed into potential energy?"

Ramtha says "There is no such thing as a stationary photon. A photon hits an atom, gives up its energy and some electron is kicked into a more energetic orbital. The mass of the atom increases correspondingly."

Ramtha says "The photon goes out of existence."

Montag says "Is it pure energy?"

Ramtha says "The photon is a packet of energy in the form of an alternating electric and magnetic field. That field vanishes when the electron hits the atom."

Ramtha says "And the energy goes into a more energetic electron orbital."

Ramtha says "And the excited atom gains the mass of the photon."

Montag says "The electron orbital can be lost through energy exchange."

Ramtha says "Read Signals and Beyond by Pierce."

Montag says "Okay--right after Hawkings."

Ramtha says "The atom can emit an identical photon upon the excited electron dropping back to the lower orbital."

Montag says "Absolutely identical?"

Ramtha says "Totally fungible. Indistinguishable."

Ramtha says "Except that it occurs at a different time and can be headed in another direction."

Montag says "If you could allign two atoms perfectly in isolation, would the exchange of a photon equivocate the 'perpetual motion machine'?"

Ramtha says "An atom all by itself is a perpetual motion machine."

Ramtha says "Except that you cannot draw energy out of it."

Montag says "But I thought entropy postulates even the stoppage of electron movement."

Ramtha says "By perpetual motion machine, one usually means one that supplies energy."

Ramtha says "Nope."

Montag says "So total entropy doesn't mean total stoppage?"

Ramtha says "Second Law of Thermodynamics applies to populations of atoms, not to indiviual ones."

Montag says "Is Heat Death equivalent to total entropy?"

Ramtha says "You mean maximum entropy?"

Montag says "I'm thinking about ABSOLUTE entropy--though I don't know the term for it."

Ramtha says "Heat Death would mean all members of a population have reached the identical energy level, and no further state change occurs."

Ramtha says "Entropy is just a measure of the disorder of a system. It's a statistic."

Montag says "I don't see how that can happen if there is any movement, even if it is only at the atomic level."

Ramtha says "If you add a drop of hot water to a glass of cold water, eventually all molecules come to a new equilibrium. That's maximum system entropy, which has nothing to do with a state of no energy. No energy is a temperature of absolute zro. That's not what heat death means."

Ramtha says "Heat death just means all parts are at the same energy state, no further net flow of energy occurs."

Ramtha says "No more hot/cold axes. All is at same temp."

Montag says "But the equilibrium of temperature in a glass of water is really a system equating equilibrium. Not every are of the glass is the same temperature--the totality of the glass is."

Ramtha says "That's why it's a statistic that applies to the population. Entropy is a statistic."

Ramtha says "The statistic is what stops changing. It reaches a maximum and stops."

Montag says "So once Heat Death is achieved, it (matter) does not spiral down to absolute zero?"

Ramtha says "Nope. Not unless the Universe expands to infinite size at the same time."

Ramtha says "If the universe expands to infinity, the average temp can drop to zero."

Montag says "Okay--my misinformation is starting to mend."

Ramtha says "But if it stays finite, like a blob of soup, then the temp will not be zero."

Ramtha says "Also, keep in mind that thermodynamics applies to populations of atoms and molecules, not to the interior structure of atoms or nuclei."

Montag says "Absolute zero isn't a cessation of subatomic motion, just atomic motion?"

Ramtha says "At absolute zero, the kinetic energy of motion of the whole atom or molecule ceases, but that does not mean that the interior of the atom stops moving."

Montag says "I think that's what I was trying to say."

Ramtha says "If your car stops at a red light, the enging keeps running."

Montag says "But as long as nobody hits me, the car doesn't move."

Ramtha says "Yes. Being hit is what thermodynamics is all about. It's bumper cars."

Montag says "Got it."

Ramtha says "It's troubling that even good students who take their physics seriously are not coming away with a clear picture of the fundamentals."

Ramtha says "Most HS physics teachers don't have it clear in their own minds."

Montag says "I hope you're not making that judgment based on me--I took a physics class about 12 years ago. Most of what I pick up these days comes via popular media."

Ramtha says "You know it far better than most. But almost everyone has it fuzzy."

Montag says "Well, it does require thinking in 'different' ways."

Ramtha says "It require doing real science, real theory construction, real inquiry."

Ramtha says "Feynman lamented it in his autobiography. Brazilian Physics he called it."

Montag says "How so 'Brazilian'?"

Montag says "Oh--not the country. Oops."

Ramtha says "The students memorized the text but couldn't apply their knowledge. He came across it while visiting a physics class in Brazil."

Montag says "Oh, it WAS the country--I was wandering off a path related to a person named Brazil..."

Montag says "He didn't need to go all the way to Brazil to see THAT!"

Ramtha says "But that's where he noticed it."

Montag says "Well, I hate to be a wet blanket--but I've got to go do some real life stuff."

Montag says "I enjoyed our chat. Perhaps Ramtha will channel us again sometime?"

Ramtha says "Perhaps. Have a nice day, and a nice Time."

Montag says "I will so endeavor. You too."

Ramtha waves.